Comments on: ENDA The Line For Us Average Folks? http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/ Just wondering what the hell is going on out there Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:34:10 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Arm Jerker J. http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7097 Arm Jerker J. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:25:28 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7097 I surely don't feel disadvantaged other than I probably picked the worst profession to get rich on! As I applied to positions and interviewed, I was not sitting there being full aware of my race or gender and the fact that all of that could hinder/help my getting a job... I mostly worried that I may not have had enough experience...etc. I think people of today are more open and accepting of us. Which is weird to type because why wouldn't they?? I guess my mind is light-years away from the average minority but I'm tired of the OVERALL victim complex, though I am fully aware racism, true hatred, exists. People often put race, gender, etc. ahead of real potential. And that goes both ways: One — the company that wants to appear “open-minded.” Two — the company who only wants a white male boys club in the office. But my main problem with certain programs/protective laws is that if we keep having them it makes people stay separate. There is no equal playing field and in turn bitterness ensues from people who say, “Well so and so got that job because they were black.” Or “I HAD to hire so and so because they were black.” And I don’t know about you, but I would HATE working in such an environment if I was that so and so everyone didn't really want there... I surely don’t feel disadvantaged other than I probably picked the worst profession to get rich on! As I applied to positions and interviewed, I was not sitting there being full aware of my race or gender and the fact that all of that could hinder/help my getting a job…
I mostly worried that I may not have had enough experience…etc.

I think people of today are more open and accepting of us. Which is weird to type because why wouldn’t they?? I guess my mind is light-years away from the average minority but I’m tired of the OVERALL victim complex, though I am fully aware racism, true hatred, exists.

People often put race, gender, etc. ahead of real potential. And that goes both ways: One — the company that wants to appear “open-minded.” Two — the company who only wants a white male boys club in the office.
But my main problem with certain programs/protective laws is that if we keep having them it makes people stay separate. There is no equal playing field and in turn bitterness ensues from people who say, “Well so and so got that job because they were black.” Or “I HAD to hire so and so because they were black.” And I don’t know about you, but I would HATE working in such an environment if I was that so and so everyone didn’t really want there…

]]> By: arclightzero http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7085 arclightzero Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:06:36 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7085 AJJ, I was hoping you would weigh in on this, and I'm glad that you took an objective approach. Being a black woman, many of these laws are aimed specifically at you, and I'm curious about something; do you feel that you are disadvantaged and need laws to protect you? Or do you feel that society s a whole (not counting the pockets of bigotry that still exist) is accepting and open enough to give a black woman, such as yourself, a fair chance at life/work/happiness etc? AJJ, I was hoping you would weigh in on this, and I’m glad that you took an objective approach. Being a black woman, many of these laws are aimed specifically at you, and I’m curious about something; do you feel that you are disadvantaged and need laws to protect you? Or do you feel that society s a whole (not counting the pockets of bigotry that still exist) is accepting and open enough to give a black woman, such as yourself, a fair chance at life/work/happiness etc?

]]> By: arclightzero http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7083 arclightzero Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:03:04 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7083 Micky, you are so right, and that is something that many people don't bother to think about There are simply some jobs, some employers or some situations where people just wouldn't fit. Legally, they somebody can't deny you the position because of your race/orientation/whatever, but it seems to be a bad idea to take that right away from the business owner. After all, they know what would work out best for their company... To force somebody to hire a person who wouldn't be a good for for the position, simply because they fall into a "protected" class just seems really wrong. But that's the problem with nondiscrimination laws. They encompass too much. In the end, I think they do more harm than good - especially in this day and age. Micky, you are so right, and that is something that many people don’t bother to think about There are simply some jobs, some employers or some situations where people just wouldn’t fit. Legally, they somebody can’t deny you the position because of your race/orientation/whatever, but it seems to be a bad idea to take that right away from the business owner. After all, they know what would work out best for their company… To force somebody to hire a person who wouldn’t be a good for for the position, simply because they fall into a “protected” class just seems really wrong.

But that’s the problem with nondiscrimination laws. They encompass too much. In the end, I think they do more harm than good – especially in this day and age.

]]> By: arclightzero http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7082 arclightzero Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:59:53 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7082 Chen, you're right, the hair salon thing was in London; I was simply using it as an example of nondiscrimination laws gone out of control. For a little more information as far as the wording, check out the CEI entry on ENDA: http://www.openmarket.org/2007/11/12/enda-gay-rights-bill-passes-house/ Chen, you’re right, the hair salon thing was in London; I was simply using it as an example of nondiscrimination laws gone out of control.

For a little more information as far as the wording, check out the CEI entry on ENDA:

http://www.openmarket.org/2007/11/12/enda-gay-rights-bill-passes-house/

]]> By: Arm Jerker J. http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7027 Arm Jerker J. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:16:00 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-7027 I’m a little torn on this one. On one hand, as you know, I’m not a huge fan of affirmative action. But you also know that I’ve stated in a past post that my father was hired based on affirmative action, proved himself and with his earnings gave me a good life—with college and support. I obviously have some passion for the topic. However, I am not sure I agree with affirmative action in these times. I still feel I want to know I’ve been hired on merit. But even today, they can hire you to fit a quota you weren’t even aware of. There is just so much gray… As for this issue of forcing tolerance, I’m going to have to say I agree with it to a point. Why? Because living in a world of total intolerance can not be, well, tolerated. I hate ignorance. And so be it if a person disagrees with someone’s sexuality, but do they have to not obtain a job because of who they drop their drawers with? That would suck. Where is the line drawn? You can’t be hired if you like to date outside your race? Can’t be hired because you like to drink a cocktail a few times a day in the comfort of your home? I just think some of all the intolerance needs curtailing. That said, I don’t like special treatment of others just because of x, y, z reason. I don’t ask for sympathy when I was forced to grow up fast because I grew up with a sick mother. Or because I’m a black female in a supposed “white man’s world.” I guess, once again, I’m sittin’ on the fence! I’m a little torn on this one. On one hand, as you know, I’m not a huge fan of affirmative action. But you also know that I’ve stated in a past post that my father was hired based on affirmative action, proved himself and with his earnings gave me a good life—with college and support. I obviously have some passion for the topic.
However, I am not sure I agree with affirmative action in these times. I still feel I want to know I’ve been hired on merit. But even today, they can hire you to fit a quota you weren’t even aware of. There is just so much gray…
As for this issue of forcing tolerance, I’m going to have to say I agree with it to a point. Why? Because living in a world of total intolerance can not be, well, tolerated. I hate ignorance. And so be it if a person disagrees with someone’s sexuality, but do they have to not obtain a job because of who they drop their drawers with? That would suck. Where is the line drawn? You can’t be hired if you like to date outside your race? Can’t be hired because you like to drink a cocktail a few times a day in the comfort of your home? I just think some of all the intolerance needs curtailing.
That said, I don’t like special treatment of others just because of x, y, z reason. I don’t ask for sympathy when I was forced to grow up fast because I grew up with a sick mother. Or because I’m a black female in a supposed “white man’s world.” I guess, once again, I’m sittin’ on the fence!

]]> By: Angel http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6936 Angel Mon, 12 Nov 2007 04:05:30 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6936 so so right on the money my friend...a wake up call indeed!..great read and ty for the linkage~! :) so so right on the money my friend…a wake up call indeed!..great read and ty for the linkage~! :)

]]> By: micky2 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6919 micky2 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:45:23 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6919 I applied as a manager at a Mexican restaraunt in Orange county once. The owner was a good friend of mine. He told me it wouldnt work because I would be subjected to reverse discrimination. (discrimination is discrimination, but thats what he called it). I did not argue, as a matter of fact he was right. I could of made a big stink. I spoke enough spanish, and was otherwise qualified. But why would I want to be somewhere I was not viable to the flow of things ? And be subjected to resentment? Being in the business all my life I understood that he also had a theme to keep and present to his customers. He should be allowed to do this on the basis that the theme is the draw. Once you have blonde haired blue eyed guys along with red heads and what have you in an authentic atmosphere, the house looses its flavor and characteristics and charm. The same would go for the no smoking bans. If I want to open a bar for bikers , with biker staff and lots of cigarette smoke, I should be able to. And if some feminine character wants to work there I should be able to say absolutly not without worrying about getting sued. I applied as a manager at a Mexican restaraunt in Orange county once. The owner was a good friend of mine. He told me it wouldnt work because I would be subjected to reverse discrimination. (discrimination is discrimination, but thats what he called it).
I did not argue, as a matter of fact he was right.
I could of made a big stink. I spoke enough spanish, and was otherwise qualified. But why would I want to be somewhere I was not viable to the flow of things ?
And be subjected to resentment?
Being in the business all my life I understood that he also had a theme to keep and present to his customers.
He should be allowed to do this on the basis that the theme is the draw. Once you have blonde haired blue eyed guys along with red heads and what have you in an authentic atmosphere, the house looses its flavor and characteristics and charm.
The same would go for the no smoking bans.
If I want to open a bar for bikers , with biker staff and lots of cigarette smoke, I should be able to.
And if some feminine character wants to work there I should be able to say absolutly not without worrying about getting sued.

]]> By: ChenZhen http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6916 ChenZhen Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:10:43 +0000 http://arclightzero.wordpress.com/2007/11/11/enda-the-line-for-us-average-folks/#comment-6916 Wasn't the hair salon thing in London? Not sure it makes a difference, but... I dunno. I'd have to see the bill. Companies have professed that they are EOE's for years, but it's tough to prove that they aren't hiring you because of one thing or another. I guess I'd have to say that for the most part, I agree with you on this one. Wasn’t the hair salon thing in London? Not sure it makes a difference, but…

I dunno. I’d have to see the bill. Companies have professed that they are EOE’s for years, but it’s tough to prove that they aren’t hiring you because of one thing or another. I guess I’d have to say that for the most part, I agree with you on this one.

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